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	<title>Comments on: Ripped From the Cerebus Yahoo! Boards</title>
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	<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/</link>
	<description>thoughts, musings and other rambling…</description>
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		<title>By: Stanley Lieber</title>
		<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-461</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanley Lieber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 14:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/#comment-461</guid>
		<description>Blair:

I think I forgot to respond to one of your points. When my batteries
run dead or my electricity goes off, I certainly can&#039;t access my
digital comics. There is a danger in storing so much important
information in fragile formats, you are absolutely right. Maybe that&#039;s
what happened to the Olmecs. :)


Mike:

http://www.penny-arcade.com (web comic)
http://www.americanelf.com (web comic)

Not every online content company is a loss-leader. These Penny Arcade
guys clean up through advertising and merchandising deals (by now
their material is also collected in print form and licensed out to
print magazines, but they started out and thrived as an online only
strip).

I do think that right now most every individual comics content
provider that turns a profit on the Internet does so with some type of
advertising scheme; whether it be Google AdWords, banner ads, or other
sponsorship deals. Many web comics creators license their strips to
high-traffic websites as well as running ads on their own sites and
embedded in their own RSS feeds. On the other hand, Kochalka simply
charges a low monthly subscription fee for unfettered access to his
complete archives. Both of these seem like workable plans to me, but
again, I&#039;m not sure how viable they are if no one&#039;s ever heard of you.
I don&#039;t think the merchandising takes off for any of these people
until they become fairly well known.

THE BIG QUESTION:

I wish I knew. :) I turn out a lot of content but not in the form of a
single continuing comic strip. One of the problems for me in terms of
making my own comics a full-time career is that I have little interest
in producing a single continuous strip in the long term. Add to that
the fact that I am so damned _slow_. As I&#039;m sure you can identify
with, it&#039;s hard turning out pages and holding down a full-time job.
This is compounded by the fact that I also work in several other media
-- in the middle of whatever strips I might be laboring on at a given
time, I&#039;m also turning out prose stories, music, etc. I&#039;ve not done a
very good job of getting my own ducks in a row. Over the last couple
of years, I&#039;ve just been sticking everything on the Internet and
waiting for somebody to write me a check.

(You laugh, but a few times people actually have written me a check.)

This may sound asinine and lazy but until I can gather enough material
together to assemble a potentially profitable collection, there&#039;s not
a lot else I can do. Nobody pays for bite-size chunks from an unknown.
At some point in the next two or three years I will be completing a
graphic novel and prose novel, so ask me this question again in 2010.
:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blair:</p>
<p>I think I forgot to respond to one of your points. When my batteries<br />
run dead or my electricity goes off, I certainly can&#8217;t access my<br />
digital comics. There is a danger in storing so much important<br />
information in fragile formats, you are absolutely right. Maybe that&#8217;s<br />
what happened to the Olmecs. <img src='http://www.ultraist.net/journal/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Mike:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.penny-arcade.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.penny-arcade.com</a> (web comic)<br />
<a href="http://www.americanelf.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.americanelf.com</a> (web comic)</p>
<p>Not every online content company is a loss-leader. These Penny Arcade<br />
guys clean up through advertising and merchandising deals (by now<br />
their material is also collected in print form and licensed out to<br />
print magazines, but they started out and thrived as an online only<br />
strip).</p>
<p>I do think that right now most every individual comics content<br />
provider that turns a profit on the Internet does so with some type of<br />
advertising scheme; whether it be Google AdWords, banner ads, or other<br />
sponsorship deals. Many web comics creators license their strips to<br />
high-traffic websites as well as running ads on their own sites and<br />
embedded in their own RSS feeds. On the other hand, Kochalka simply<br />
charges a low monthly subscription fee for unfettered access to his<br />
complete archives. Both of these seem like workable plans to me, but<br />
again, I&#8217;m not sure how viable they are if no one&#8217;s ever heard of you.<br />
I don&#8217;t think the merchandising takes off for any of these people<br />
until they become fairly well known.</p>
<p>THE BIG QUESTION:</p>
<p>I wish I knew. <img src='http://www.ultraist.net/journal/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I turn out a lot of content but not in the form of a<br />
single continuing comic strip. One of the problems for me in terms of<br />
making my own comics a full-time career is that I have little interest<br />
in producing a single continuous strip in the long term. Add to that<br />
the fact that I am so damned _slow_. As I&#8217;m sure you can identify<br />
with, it&#8217;s hard turning out pages and holding down a full-time job.<br />
This is compounded by the fact that I also work in several other media<br />
&#8211; in the middle of whatever strips I might be laboring on at a given<br />
time, I&#8217;m also turning out prose stories, music, etc. I&#8217;ve not done a<br />
very good job of getting my own ducks in a row. Over the last couple<br />
of years, I&#8217;ve just been sticking everything on the Internet and<br />
waiting for somebody to write me a check.</p>
<p>(You laugh, but a few times people actually have written me a check.)</p>
<p>This may sound asinine and lazy but until I can gather enough material<br />
together to assemble a potentially profitable collection, there&#8217;s not<br />
a lot else I can do. Nobody pays for bite-size chunks from an unknown.<br />
At some point in the next two or three years I will be completing a<br />
graphic novel and prose novel, so ask me this question again in 2010.<br />
 <img src='http://www.ultraist.net/journal/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: M Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-459</link>
		<dc:creator>M Kitchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 20:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/#comment-459</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah, ONE MORE QUESTION:

Who are the people making a living from their web comics, and other forms of purely digital content, _right now_?

Aside from The Norm, I&#039;m not sure I know of any.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah, ONE MORE QUESTION:</p>
<p>Who are the people making a living from their web comics, and other forms of purely digital content, _right now_?</p>
<p>Aside from The Norm, I&#8217;m not sure I know of any.</p>
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		<title>By: M Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-458</link>
		<dc:creator>M Kitchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 20:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/#comment-458</guid>
		<description>For the most part, your thinking on this stuff seems very close to mine overall.

The economies of scale doesn&#039;t concern me at this point.  I&#039;m not sure if it should or not.  Perhaps.  I&#039;ll keep my eye on it.

The newspaper thing I can understand.  There is not a lot of point nowadays to bother with a newspaper, because most of it is shite and advertisements.  As a news source, the internet is faster and much more vast.  And there isn&#039;t much &quot;artifact&quot; value.  I can understand people still wanting to buy a traditional newspaper though.  But I can also see why newspaper corporations would be scaling back traditional print and leaning towards online.

As for technology, I can see this stuff coming.  But it doesn&#039;t scare me (except for microchip implants with ID chips and RDF tags - that stuff seriously concerns me).  I remember while I was working on Final Fantasy back in 1998-2001, actors were freaking out that they were all going to be replaced with CG characters.  I don&#039;t care what anyone says.  It&#039;s just not going to happen.  I see the scare over traditionally printed paper books being threatened by electronic media being in the same ballpark (at least in the short term - which is what concerns me most at the moment).

I totally agree that as independent artists, this is an opportune time for us to compete with the BIG publishers.

NOW, THIS IS THE BIG QUESTION:

What do you see as being the ideal business plan for someone wanting to create an independent comic?  As a fellow comic maker, I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve given a lot of thought to this, and I am curious what your best thinking is on the subject.

To turn this comic making into a full-time career, what would YOU do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the most part, your thinking on this stuff seems very close to mine overall.</p>
<p>The economies of scale doesn&#8217;t concern me at this point.  I&#8217;m not sure if it should or not.  Perhaps.  I&#8217;ll keep my eye on it.</p>
<p>The newspaper thing I can understand.  There is not a lot of point nowadays to bother with a newspaper, because most of it is shite and advertisements.  As a news source, the internet is faster and much more vast.  And there isn&#8217;t much &#8220;artifact&#8221; value.  I can understand people still wanting to buy a traditional newspaper though.  But I can also see why newspaper corporations would be scaling back traditional print and leaning towards online.</p>
<p>As for technology, I can see this stuff coming.  But it doesn&#8217;t scare me (except for microchip implants with ID chips and RDF tags &#8211; that stuff seriously concerns me).  I remember while I was working on Final Fantasy back in 1998-2001, actors were freaking out that they were all going to be replaced with CG characters.  I don&#8217;t care what anyone says.  It&#8217;s just not going to happen.  I see the scare over traditionally printed paper books being threatened by electronic media being in the same ballpark (at least in the short term &#8211; which is what concerns me most at the moment).</p>
<p>I totally agree that as independent artists, this is an opportune time for us to compete with the BIG publishers.</p>
<p>NOW, THIS IS THE BIG QUESTION:</p>
<p>What do you see as being the ideal business plan for someone wanting to create an independent comic?  As a fellow comic maker, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve given a lot of thought to this, and I am curious what your best thinking is on the subject.</p>
<p>To turn this comic making into a full-time career, what would YOU do?</p>
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		<title>By: Blair Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-457</link>
		<dc:creator>Blair Kitchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 17:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/#comment-457</guid>
		<description>Stanley:  Thanks for the great insight.  Some of those points, I haven&#039;t really thought of before.  (Especially the cost of paper rising due to less overall demand).  
Technology scares me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stanley:  Thanks for the great insight.  Some of those points, I haven&#8217;t really thought of before.  (Especially the cost of paper rising due to less overall demand).<br />
Technology scares me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stanley Lieber</title>
		<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanley Lieber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 11:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/#comment-455</guid>
		<description>Mike:

Here is pretty much the latest in digital paper:

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070514PR200.html

I don&#039;t think digital comics are capable of competing with print comics right now. The technology of the &quot;digital comic book reading device&quot; doesn&#039;t yet exist. The profit models have not yet been worked out. But, I do think that when someone hits that sweet spot between fidelity of reproduction and physical convenience for a digital reader, print is going to become even more prohibitively expensive than it already is. There are economies of scale to consider. We&#039;re already seeing the big newspapers and magazines cutting back their reliance on print in favor of Internet publishing. Once these big players are no longer subsidizing the pulp industry, paper prices will skyrocket. (Actually, pulp paper prices have already been rising exponentially over the last fifteen years or so.) It&#039;s very likely there will be comic book artists creating paper books a hundred years from now -- but who will be able to afford to buy them? Paper books will certainly be an anomaly compared to the rest of the &quot;publishing&quot; industry as it will come to exist. Kind of like how books we buy today don&#039;t attain to the same standards of quality as the peak of European book-binding several hundred years ago. If you&#039;re in the business of creating mass entertainment, your content has to be affordable enough to be readily available. See Dover paperbacks.

I started reading comics in digital .cbz/.cbr format around 2002 or so, and gradually it has taken over almost all of my reading of new material. Part of that has to do with the fact that so little new stuff comes out that I&#039;m actually interested in (I read a lot of stuff that I download that there is basically zero chance I would ever buy); part of that has to do with the fact that a lot of stuff is out of print (many 1970s and 1980s books, especially from defunct indy publishers); and part of that has to do with the sheer convenience of the portable window to my gigantic, searchable comics archive (thanks to the Internet I can tote my tablet virtually anywhere and still access my comics files at home). I will say that I read a lot fewer digital comics when I was doing it off a monitor screen. My tablet (Thinkpad X41) is relatively lightweight and has a good contrast ratio. Major complaints right now are that it&#039;s not flexible; that even at 3lbs it _could_ weigh less; and that the lack of multi-touch screen interface requires that I have to use the stylus to move between comic files. For what it&#039;s worth, I also do virtually all of my comic art on this tablet now (Photoshop and Manga Studio Pro running inside CrossoverOffice on top of Linux). Flexible, networked digital paper is another step in this direction that will only make it more convenient to favor the electronic device over the bookshelf or drawing table. 

At the present moment, I actually prefer reading comics in printed collections. Preferably in hardback. I have bought many volumes of vintage comics reprints that I already possess as digital files, simply because I&#039;d rather read them in bound format. This is a complete 180 for me, as I used to loathe hardback comics (I used to prefer single issues, partially because the reproduction in reprints was so horrendous and partially because I liked holding/smelling comic books). I would testify that the time I&#039;ve spent reading comics on my computer has completely broken me of my &quot;artifact worship&quot; -- strangely, I don&#039;t really miss the pamphlets anymore. However, it is true that the digital format is still not quite as comfortable to me as sitting down with a printed book. For one thing I always have to worry about damaging a &gt; $1,000 piece of equipment, versus a twenty or thirty dollar book.

In terms of profit model, digital comics face the same problems as other forms of online content. It&#039;s likely that, if the Internet is able to retain its open structure, new profit models will have to emerge. &quot;Scarcity&quot; is a game you play with physical objects, not with digital bits. I think it&#039;s very difficult for comic book fans, especially, to lose their &quot;artifact&quot; mentality when it comes to content delivery. You can&#039;t put a .cbz file in a mylar bag. You can&#039;t resell it in two weeks at a 1000% mark-up. It doesn&#039;t feel like you&#039;ve bought anything. But I think that this mentality is going to melt away with the first generation of comic readers who come up with the digital reading technology. Maybe in sixty years time they&#039;ll feel uncomfortable with the newest network paper that is physically indistinguishable from newsprint because they have nostalgia for their CRT monitors. :)

Again, though, my point with all of this isn&#039;t to convince anyone that this technology is coming -- that much is inevitable -- it&#039;s to suggest that we might simply acknowledge that the game is afoot, that things are changing, and that it&#039;s actually kind of an interesting opportunity for small publishers to edge in on an equal footing with the big comic companies.

Finally, if you compare comic books to other forms of periodical publishing, they&#039;re already a bit of an anomaly in that comic books are not predominantly supported by advertising revenues. Most magazines and newspapers are loss leaders that profit from their ad rates, not from actually selling copies to readers. Over-all, periodical publishing is a business in which publishers sell a certain number of eyeballs to advertisers. That&#039;s the economics. That&#039;s why you&#039;re able to buy a 500 page issue of VOGUE, printed in full-color on glossy paper, for seven bucks and not seventy bucks.

Granted, much of this is probably useless to a cartoonist trying to make a living from their books _right now_; but I would point out that there are a lot of people making a living from their web comics, and other forms of purely digital content, _right now_. The Direct Market is/was a system that worked for what it did, when it did; but there are a lot of ways to do things and I for one think that somehow interested parties will eventually figure out how to profit from digital comics, just as interested parties have started to figure out how to profit from other forms of digital content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike:</p>
<p>Here is pretty much the latest in digital paper:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070514PR200.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070514PR200.html</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think digital comics are capable of competing with print comics right now. The technology of the &#8220;digital comic book reading device&#8221; doesn&#8217;t yet exist. The profit models have not yet been worked out. But, I do think that when someone hits that sweet spot between fidelity of reproduction and physical convenience for a digital reader, print is going to become even more prohibitively expensive than it already is. There are economies of scale to consider. We&#8217;re already seeing the big newspapers and magazines cutting back their reliance on print in favor of Internet publishing. Once these big players are no longer subsidizing the pulp industry, paper prices will skyrocket. (Actually, pulp paper prices have already been rising exponentially over the last fifteen years or so.) It&#8217;s very likely there will be comic book artists creating paper books a hundred years from now &#8212; but who will be able to afford to buy them? Paper books will certainly be an anomaly compared to the rest of the &#8220;publishing&#8221; industry as it will come to exist. Kind of like how books we buy today don&#8217;t attain to the same standards of quality as the peak of European book-binding several hundred years ago. If you&#8217;re in the business of creating mass entertainment, your content has to be affordable enough to be readily available. See Dover paperbacks.</p>
<p>I started reading comics in digital .cbz/.cbr format around 2002 or so, and gradually it has taken over almost all of my reading of new material. Part of that has to do with the fact that so little new stuff comes out that I&#8217;m actually interested in (I read a lot of stuff that I download that there is basically zero chance I would ever buy); part of that has to do with the fact that a lot of stuff is out of print (many 1970s and 1980s books, especially from defunct indy publishers); and part of that has to do with the sheer convenience of the portable window to my gigantic, searchable comics archive (thanks to the Internet I can tote my tablet virtually anywhere and still access my comics files at home). I will say that I read a lot fewer digital comics when I was doing it off a monitor screen. My tablet (Thinkpad X41) is relatively lightweight and has a good contrast ratio. Major complaints right now are that it&#8217;s not flexible; that even at 3lbs it _could_ weigh less; and that the lack of multi-touch screen interface requires that I have to use the stylus to move between comic files. For what it&#8217;s worth, I also do virtually all of my comic art on this tablet now (Photoshop and Manga Studio Pro running inside CrossoverOffice on top of Linux). Flexible, networked digital paper is another step in this direction that will only make it more convenient to favor the electronic device over the bookshelf or drawing table. </p>
<p>At the present moment, I actually prefer reading comics in printed collections. Preferably in hardback. I have bought many volumes of vintage comics reprints that I already possess as digital files, simply because I&#8217;d rather read them in bound format. This is a complete 180 for me, as I used to loathe hardback comics (I used to prefer single issues, partially because the reproduction in reprints was so horrendous and partially because I liked holding/smelling comic books). I would testify that the time I&#8217;ve spent reading comics on my computer has completely broken me of my &#8220;artifact worship&#8221; &#8212; strangely, I don&#8217;t really miss the pamphlets anymore. However, it is true that the digital format is still not quite as comfortable to me as sitting down with a printed book. For one thing I always have to worry about damaging a &gt; $1,000 piece of equipment, versus a twenty or thirty dollar book.</p>
<p>In terms of profit model, digital comics face the same problems as other forms of online content. It&#8217;s likely that, if the Internet is able to retain its open structure, new profit models will have to emerge. &#8220;Scarcity&#8221; is a game you play with physical objects, not with digital bits. I think it&#8217;s very difficult for comic book fans, especially, to lose their &#8220;artifact&#8221; mentality when it comes to content delivery. You can&#8217;t put a .cbz file in a mylar bag. You can&#8217;t resell it in two weeks at a 1000% mark-up. It doesn&#8217;t feel like you&#8217;ve bought anything. But I think that this mentality is going to melt away with the first generation of comic readers who come up with the digital reading technology. Maybe in sixty years time they&#8217;ll feel uncomfortable with the newest network paper that is physically indistinguishable from newsprint because they have nostalgia for their CRT monitors. <img src='http://www.ultraist.net/journal/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Again, though, my point with all of this isn&#8217;t to convince anyone that this technology is coming &#8212; that much is inevitable &#8212; it&#8217;s to suggest that we might simply acknowledge that the game is afoot, that things are changing, and that it&#8217;s actually kind of an interesting opportunity for small publishers to edge in on an equal footing with the big comic companies.</p>
<p>Finally, if you compare comic books to other forms of periodical publishing, they&#8217;re already a bit of an anomaly in that comic books are not predominantly supported by advertising revenues. Most magazines and newspapers are loss leaders that profit from their ad rates, not from actually selling copies to readers. Over-all, periodical publishing is a business in which publishers sell a certain number of eyeballs to advertisers. That&#8217;s the economics. That&#8217;s why you&#8217;re able to buy a 500 page issue of VOGUE, printed in full-color on glossy paper, for seven bucks and not seventy bucks.</p>
<p>Granted, much of this is probably useless to a cartoonist trying to make a living from their books _right now_; but I would point out that there are a lot of people making a living from their web comics, and other forms of purely digital content, _right now_. The Direct Market is/was a system that worked for what it did, when it did; but there are a lot of ways to do things and I for one think that somehow interested parties will eventually figure out how to profit from digital comics, just as interested parties have started to figure out how to profit from other forms of digital content.</p>
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		<title>By: M Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>M Kitchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2007 04:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/#comment-452</guid>
		<description>Interesting.  I never once stopped to consider that as a reason for traditionally printed paper comics over digital comics, even though I DO consider that every time I look at my own personal DVD collection.

Margaret over at the Cerebus Yahoo! Group &lt;a href=&quot;http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cerebus/message/120631&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;just wrote&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;em&gt;I voted for paper comics for $$$, but I also get an electronic comic for $$$ (just James Kochalka&#039;s American Elf) and for free (lots from Boy On A Stick and Slither to xkcd  to La Muse). I&#039;m more apt to read an &quot;e-comic&quot; if it is free, and I only pay for James&#039; comic because I pick up all of his hard copy work and really enjoyed it. Now I just get his daily American Elf comic rather then picking up the hard copy versions.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;I don&#039;t pick up many hard copy comics nowadays, and rarely set foot in a comic store (the most recent time being at SPACE). Though I have picked up some hard copy comics from stuff I&#039;ve seen on line, and would gladly pick up a trade of La Muse once Adi and Hugo have finished it.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;So while I prefer my comics to be paper comics for $$$, I get the majority of my comics nowadays via the internet for free.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.  I never once stopped to consider that as a reason for traditionally printed paper comics over digital comics, even though I DO consider that every time I look at my own personal DVD collection.</p>
<p>Margaret over at the Cerebus Yahoo! Group <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cerebus/message/120631" rel="nofollow">just wrote</a>:</p>
<p><em>I voted for paper comics for $$$, but I also get an electronic comic for $$$ (just James Kochalka&#8217;s American Elf) and for free (lots from Boy On A Stick and Slither to xkcd  to La Muse). I&#8217;m more apt to read an &#8220;e-comic&#8221; if it is free, and I only pay for James&#8217; comic because I pick up all of his hard copy work and really enjoyed it. Now I just get his daily American Elf comic rather then picking up the hard copy versions.</em></p>
<p><em>I don&#8217;t pick up many hard copy comics nowadays, and rarely set foot in a comic store (the most recent time being at SPACE). Though I have picked up some hard copy comics from stuff I&#8217;ve seen on line, and would gladly pick up a trade of La Muse once Adi and Hugo have finished it.</em></p>
<p><em>So while I prefer my comics to be paper comics for $$$, I get the majority of my comics nowadays via the internet for free.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Blair kitchen</title>
		<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>Blair kitchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2007 04:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/#comment-451</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll tell you my biggest reason for not trusting technology.  You&#039;re at the mercy of whoever is making the software.  Just like DVDs and CDs and Video Tapes.  As soon as some big ass company decides that the time is right to make a whole crap load of money, they change the format, and you lose everything.  I have a whole crap load of VHS tapes that are going to be useless when my crappy VCR that only half works breaks down, and there aren&#039;t any more to replace it.  I won&#039;t be handing down my VHS collection to my kids, I&#039;ll tell you that.  My comic collection?  Well I hope one day, whether the world is using digital paper, or whatever types of &quot;files&quot; or magical viewers, I&#039;ll be able to hand down my collection to my kids.  Paper is like concrete compared to a PDF.  Who knows if you will be able to use PDF&#039;s 40 years from now?  But I&#039;ll be able to read my issue of Groo #1.  

That&#039;s just my thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll tell you my biggest reason for not trusting technology.  You&#8217;re at the mercy of whoever is making the software.  Just like DVDs and CDs and Video Tapes.  As soon as some big ass company decides that the time is right to make a whole crap load of money, they change the format, and you lose everything.  I have a whole crap load of VHS tapes that are going to be useless when my crappy VCR that only half works breaks down, and there aren&#8217;t any more to replace it.  I won&#8217;t be handing down my VHS collection to my kids, I&#8217;ll tell you that.  My comic collection?  Well I hope one day, whether the world is using digital paper, or whatever types of &#8220;files&#8221; or magical viewers, I&#8217;ll be able to hand down my collection to my kids.  Paper is like concrete compared to a PDF.  Who knows if you will be able to use PDF&#8217;s 40 years from now?  But I&#8217;ll be able to read my issue of Groo #1.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s just my thought.</p>
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		<title>By: M Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>M Kitchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 17:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/#comment-450</guid>
		<description>Hi Stanley - Thanks for chiming in!  I find it interesting that you read your comics on your tablet PC.  You&#039;re the first person I&#039;ve heard from that reads comics on the computer (full comics, that is - webcomics aside).  Here is a question:  Do you prefer digital comics over paper comics? (with todays technology - right now I am very skeptical about digital paper, sure, it will happen eventually, but now?  I think it&#039;s over hyped)  I made a poll at the Cerebus Yahoo! Group, and so far there is a 100% preference to paper comics, even over FREE digital comics.   Which has always been my hunch.

While I enjoy keeping a pulse on future technology (I&#039;m a cyberpunk buff) I am always hesitant to base my own business decisions on the latest hype.  There is always so much sensationalism that it&#039;s easy to loose sight of reality.  When I hear talk about people abandoning traditional print for digital comics, I am skeptical, because I myself would never abandon traditional print for digital comics.  I just like traditionally printed paper comics.  I like owning them.  I like reading them.  I couldn&#039;t imagine outright trading one for the other.  Maybe I&#039;m just old fashioned that way.  I&#039;ll be keeping an eye on the next generation (especially since I&#039;ve got 3 of my own).

I was also skeptical about Scott McCloud&#039;s &quot;pay-per-click&quot; business model when he discussed it in Reinventing Comics, and 7 years later, I think I was right in being skeptical.  I just can&#039;t see that model ever working.  Cartoon Retro and The Norm seem to be the closest success stories that I know of.  However I prefer the PvP business model myself.

Then again, I&#039;m surprised that anyone buys into iTunes.

My one last defense in regards to traditionally printed paper comics is this:  When your tablet PC breaks down, when your digital paper runs out of batteries, when you are removed from all civilization, you can still read your paper comic.  That more than anything, is why I think that traditional print will always be a relevant medium.

Of course, I have no problem at all providing SPY GUY as a .pdf or .cbr. If that ends up being what the people want?  So be it.  Time will tell.

Thanks again for taking the time to add to the discussion.  I always enjoy hearing what people think on this subject, especially when it is a dissenting view point to my own!  The closer I can get my own view to reality, the more successful I can be with my own comic!  In theory anyway...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Stanley &#8211; Thanks for chiming in!  I find it interesting that you read your comics on your tablet PC.  You&#8217;re the first person I&#8217;ve heard from that reads comics on the computer (full comics, that is &#8211; webcomics aside).  Here is a question:  Do you prefer digital comics over paper comics? (with todays technology &#8211; right now I am very skeptical about digital paper, sure, it will happen eventually, but now?  I think it&#8217;s over hyped)  I made a poll at the Cerebus Yahoo! Group, and so far there is a 100% preference to paper comics, even over FREE digital comics.   Which has always been my hunch.</p>
<p>While I enjoy keeping a pulse on future technology (I&#8217;m a cyberpunk buff) I am always hesitant to base my own business decisions on the latest hype.  There is always so much sensationalism that it&#8217;s easy to loose sight of reality.  When I hear talk about people abandoning traditional print for digital comics, I am skeptical, because I myself would never abandon traditional print for digital comics.  I just like traditionally printed paper comics.  I like owning them.  I like reading them.  I couldn&#8217;t imagine outright trading one for the other.  Maybe I&#8217;m just old fashioned that way.  I&#8217;ll be keeping an eye on the next generation (especially since I&#8217;ve got 3 of my own).</p>
<p>I was also skeptical about Scott McCloud&#8217;s &#8220;pay-per-click&#8221; business model when he discussed it in Reinventing Comics, and 7 years later, I think I was right in being skeptical.  I just can&#8217;t see that model ever working.  Cartoon Retro and The Norm seem to be the closest success stories that I know of.  However I prefer the PvP business model myself.</p>
<p>Then again, I&#8217;m surprised that anyone buys into iTunes.</p>
<p>My one last defense in regards to traditionally printed paper comics is this:  When your tablet PC breaks down, when your digital paper runs out of batteries, when you are removed from all civilization, you can still read your paper comic.  That more than anything, is why I think that traditional print will always be a relevant medium.</p>
<p>Of course, I have no problem at all providing SPY GUY as a .pdf or .cbr. If that ends up being what the people want?  So be it.  Time will tell.</p>
<p>Thanks again for taking the time to add to the discussion.  I always enjoy hearing what people think on this subject, especially when it is a dissenting view point to my own!  The closer I can get my own view to reality, the more successful I can be with my own comic!  In theory anyway&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Campbell</title>
		<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-448</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 02:37:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/#comment-448</guid>
		<description>Blair:  What you said about marvel saturating the market was really profound.  It really explained why i walk into comic book stores and walk right out.  Even though i say, &quot;Ok THIS time I&#039;m going to pick something up no matter what!&quot; I thought it was me.  Anyway, that really made think:  Is that why i can never find anything on TV?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blair:  What you said about marvel saturating the market was really profound.  It really explained why i walk into comic book stores and walk right out.  Even though i say, &#8220;Ok THIS time I&#8217;m going to pick something up no matter what!&#8221; I thought it was me.  Anyway, that really made think:  Is that why i can never find anything on TV?</p>
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		<title>By: Stanley Lieber</title>
		<link>http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/comment-page-1/#comment-447</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanley Lieber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 09:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ultraist.net/journal/2007/05/10/ripped-from-the-cerebus-yahoo-boards/#comment-447</guid>
		<description>One more point:

You shouldn&#039;t limit the comparison between &quot;digital&quot; and &quot;paper&quot; to the technology that is available today. Part of my point was that the &quot;Internet&quot; is increasingly not separated from these other areas of our experience. In the real world, some televisions, kitchen equipment, and even clothing are now connected to the Internet. With the advent of RFID, wifi and IPV6, we really are facing the &quot;Internet of things,&quot; in which all objects are networked.

In addition, consider the improvements in interface technology itself. It is not going to be that long before &quot;digital paper&quot; is virtually indistinguishable, physically, from pulp paper. It&#039;s a question of when, not if. The only real argument that can be sustained against digital content, once the interfaces meet and exceed the traditional versions, is one that claims the digital aspects of technology will go away completely.  Otherwise, it&#039;s only a matter of time before all content is absorbed into the Internet, and is available via superior interfaces. For example, kids today are not going to have the same attachment to pulp that we do; and that&#039;s even just appraising their relationship with the clunky monitors and keyboards we have right now. In ten years time when I&#039;m reading Byrne FANTASTIC FOURs from a piece of networked digital paper I can roll up and stick in my back pocket, it&#039;s going to be hard to sell me on going upstairs and digging individual issues out of a longbox.

For the time being, no, I don&#039;t think digital comics are going to replace pulp paper comics.* But that perspective is frankly not sustainable.

(* Even though I personally read most of my comics on my tablet PC, which allows me to see the pages at full size.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more point:</p>
<p>You shouldn&#8217;t limit the comparison between &#8220;digital&#8221; and &#8220;paper&#8221; to the technology that is available today. Part of my point was that the &#8220;Internet&#8221; is increasingly not separated from these other areas of our experience. In the real world, some televisions, kitchen equipment, and even clothing are now connected to the Internet. With the advent of RFID, wifi and IPV6, we really are facing the &#8220;Internet of things,&#8221; in which all objects are networked.</p>
<p>In addition, consider the improvements in interface technology itself. It is not going to be that long before &#8220;digital paper&#8221; is virtually indistinguishable, physically, from pulp paper. It&#8217;s a question of when, not if. The only real argument that can be sustained against digital content, once the interfaces meet and exceed the traditional versions, is one that claims the digital aspects of technology will go away completely.  Otherwise, it&#8217;s only a matter of time before all content is absorbed into the Internet, and is available via superior interfaces. For example, kids today are not going to have the same attachment to pulp that we do; and that&#8217;s even just appraising their relationship with the clunky monitors and keyboards we have right now. In ten years time when I&#8217;m reading Byrne FANTASTIC FOURs from a piece of networked digital paper I can roll up and stick in my back pocket, it&#8217;s going to be hard to sell me on going upstairs and digging individual issues out of a longbox.</p>
<p>For the time being, no, I don&#8217;t think digital comics are going to replace pulp paper comics.* But that perspective is frankly not sustainable.</p>
<p>(* Even though I personally read most of my comics on my tablet PC, which allows me to see the pages at full size.)</p>
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